When Lucy was only two days old she was adopted by a psychologist and his wife who wondered: if given the right environment, how human could Lucy . There's lots and lots of lessons here, but one is I think, you know, when you are enjoying to do something for the greater good, maybe ask yourself the question, what is greater and what is good? This is what's driving the world towards 10, 12, by 2050. Sap in the next room just because they were being told to? Radiolab is supported, in part, by the National Science Foundation, and by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science, technology in the modern world. I thought about grabbing a knife quickly and stabbing him in the chest repeatedly until he was dead. Um, with a black belt in karate. And they ask for it to be reformulated to take out the warning smell, and it becomes zyklon B, the killing gas of the concentration camps. And he did too. With help from Adam Cole, Rachel James, and Matt [Kielty 01:07:25]. Um, I got a little, uh, I- my- this is my dorsal hair stood up when I read the end of this. You know what's going to happen if she pisses you off. Let's begin with this story from our producer Pat Walters. Any idea what the hell he was intending? ", Yes I did need to kill. Radiolab - Transcripts Subscribe 187 episodes Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. Nice sky? Do we know? Yeah let's . According to James, he's not the baddest in Shakespeare or in life because ultimately the play offers up a reason for his nastiness. I'm going to take a break. "I need to kill because of that." Like, he didn't intend for that to happen. And when you stick a seed like weed seed in the ground-. Why did you inflict on this suffering on them, on us? That's historian, Fritz Stern, who also happens to be Fritz Haber's godson. That's Fritz Haber's wife. That was just for those of you haven't heard it yet, this is a kind of a rush through a- through sex reproduction. And he ran them through something like what you and I just did. Of course nobody wants to be killing other people. You're not the first one. The most common source of nitrogen is in the air around us. A box of ashes. A hero. So, every day they would bring him into this conference room. My dad said, "I don't want to talk about it." Read these words. And Iago-, He refuses what we fully expect, and what everybody on stage, at that moment, fully expects from him. And I heard about him from science writer, Sam Kean. Chimps. I actually did the first thing, but he saw my intentions and ran away." But if you could somehow get a real Iago in the room, and subject that person to questioning, and really get them to sort of fess up as to why they did it, would that make a difference? The experiment requires that we continue. [1] Radiolab was founded by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich in 2002. "I need to kill because of that." This next part's a little graphic. And she said, "My ex-boyfriend. "Have you ever thought about killing someone?" We're close to some really fundamental truths about human nature. Now, Haber was Jewish, but because he had served in World War I-. According to some accounts, as they crept across no man's land. Well, I can use that same process to make explosives because the thing that you put into the ground to grow more food is also the thing you can explode to make a bomb.". The general's name is Othello. He takes over leadership of this institute in Berlin, and he starts hobnobbing with a whole different level of society. He recruited a bunch of subjects-. Listen Now. Nothing to be ashamed of. He's bald. That's one of the things that we need to know. Members of his extended family did. At high temperature. And this is the difference between Kaiser Wilhelm and of course Hitler's Germany. Really, that story's been told a million and one times for the last 50 years, we've just got to get over it. Yet you go into this [inaudible 01:02:33] knowing full well that it could end up in her death. Yes, it's awesome, thank you, Ben. On the other hand, if anyone can do it-. Hundreds of them were falling to the ground. And he says, "Because of the rage." He just kind of went crazy. I don't know that you could entirely call him bad, I might even tilt towards saying he's a little good, to be honest. This is actually mean to be bad anyways. But if they were prepared to do that, when I suspect a lot of them would, then we'd say, "These are people who really believe in science, and isn't this a good thing that we have people in our society, who are willing to make sacrifices-. You've touched me. But as the play goes on, you begin to think that maybe that's just another lie. And then, she said, "I actually did this. How many of them went into that kind of detail? Okay. They start disagreeing with each other, and this one you get zero percent going all the way. Now, of course you could find some nitrogen out in the world. And, um, in January of 1984, the Green River task force was formed. Within minutes the gas reached the Allied side. So you're saying they were shocking these people because they thought it was worthwhile? Go. So, around the turn of the century for German scientists like Haber, this was the challenge. Alex Haslem, Professor of Psychology at the University of Exeter. Uh, if I don't leave my house right now, I'm going to kill her." The expectation is somebody is made to make his peace with his maker before he dies. And not just 'cause he was vain, which everyone agrees he was, but because he loves his country. Then he goes and celebrates that, and then walks away from his child and his wife dead in the garden and says, "More of that please.". That afternoon, he gets in his car, goes home, he finds my mom on the deck, sits down next to her. I invited him for dinner and as he was in the kitchen looking stupid peeling the carrots to make salad, I came up to him laughingly, gently so that he wouldn't suspect anything. Fast forward 10 years. No 'cause if you couldn't afford a ticket for a play, you'd seen all the plays, in the 1500s you could always go to a public hanging. They've got a- a very plausible, very credible high status scientist at a high status scientific institution. Accuracy and availability may vary. And almost like blaming the victims. Yeah, I agree with that. with Lulu Miller, and Latif Nasser. The most common source of nitrogen is in the air around us. It comes to us from our reporter, Aaron Scott. Do you leave this experiment in a light mood or in a dark mood overall? I mean, yes, I did lie about that. And oddly enough, we came- got a really interesting take on the true nature of badness from this guy. So you don't know? This is what totally pulled me into this story, the prods. Live shows were first offered in 2008. Now, of course, you could find some nitrogen out in the world. And then it was several hours later, in the middle of the night, that I got the call. Well, I'd have to discontinue the experimenter then. The Bad Show.ogg download. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of. Thanks also to reporter Aaron Scott for that story. So Stanley Milgram actually begins these experiments the same year that Adolf Eichmann goes on trial for Nazi war crimes. That he asked Gary, there was a lot of questions he was asking. Uh, generates electric shocks. With my arm. For much the same reasons. Okay. I'm not going to help restore the sense that there is a moral order to the world and a moral norm. Radiolab is supported by Audible. I'll give you bad. We'll be right back [inaudible 00:31:42], let's just finish this series. He had an attack or something there. ", And the class ended, and I went back to my office, and I just sat at my desk, and I started reading these. September 15, 2022 Radiolab for Kids and WNYC Studios present Terrestrials, a six-episode miniseries hosted by Lulu Miller (co-host of Radiolab . [inaudible 00:49:36] bad people in Shakespeare. I- I- I would say in a powerful mood. Because it takes such energy and pressure to separate it This trivalent bond is so strong that when it comes back together, that energy that's released, it could be used for life or death. Right now get $50 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com/radiolab and using Code Radiolab at checkout. And 91 percent of the men said, "Yes." Who they would kill, where they'd do it, when. And I devoted one class session to the topic of homicide and why people kill. Just give me your finger, [crosstalk 00:09:28] I'm going to-. So, I broke up with him. And when you stick a seed, like a wheat seed in the ground. ", Um, but Haber just kind of ignored her and-, He actually threw a dinner party in celebration-. Today's date is, uh, June 17th. And did you go back to the party then and continue dinner partying for a while? That's it? There's lots and lots of lessons here, but one is I think when you're enjoying to do something for the greater good, maybe ask yourself the question, "What is greater, and what is good?". They brought in psychiatrists and forensic psychologists to try to get an answer. With higher and higher voltage. We'll be right back. No, because if you couldn't afford a ticket for a play, you'd seen all the plays, in the 1500s, you could always go to a public hanging. That's correct, because it takes such energy and pressure to separate it, its trivalent bond is so strong that when it comes back together, that energy is released, it can be used for life or death. You literally get a drip, drip, drip, of ammonia. Time's up. I actually did the first thing, but he saw my intentions and ran away." And actually this wasn't just a German thing, a lot of people were beginning to worry that with about a billion and a half people on the planet, at that point, that maybe we were maxing out, that the earth couldn't support this many people. How do you tell the real baddies from the rest of us? But over the entire ocean, there's a lot of gold dissolved into the sea. Even when their sorrows almost were forgot, and on their skins is on the bark of trees, have written my life with my knife carved in Roman letters. No. He has these pince-nez spectacles. She was one of the first women to earn a PhD in her country. Support Radiolab today atRadiolab.org/donate. Milgram staged the whole thing like it was some experiment about memory and punishment, but of course it wasn't about that. But did it, publicly, in front of her friends. And, uh, I heard about him from science writer Sam Keen. This is sort of chilling comparison, which is a speed that Himmler gave to the SS, some SS leaders, when they were, uh, about to commit a range of atrocities. 2K views almost 2 years ago 48:23 Love it or hate it, the freedom to say obnoxious and subversive things is the quintessence of what makes America America. And 84% of the women. He believes in me and he trusts me and so much. So in the Milgram case. We begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and 84% of women, have fantasized about killing someone. Because this room's echo-y. Oft have I digged up dead men from their graves and set them upright at their dear friend's door. If you think that science is worth pursuing, you say, "Okay. And to make the problem even more annoying. Imagine they really were had to administer shocks to themselves or something. Especially when it came to one particular fact. I think what it's doing is, uh, if you breathe it in, it sort of irritates your lungs to the extent that they sort of fills up with fluid so quickly that you sort of drown in your own phlegm. I would say in a powerful mood; we're close to some really fundamental truths about human nature. So, he sends a letter to the Ministry of Education resigning and he leaves Germany, telling a friend he felt like he lost his homeland. He has a pot belly. You know, on the other hand, I mean, if you look at the grand calculus, people he's he-helped or fed versus people he's killed, I mean, he's got fed billions of people, I don't know that you could entirely call him bad. Nice job? How many times would they shock that sad-. He's such a puzzle to me. We, as- as onlookers to this study, we have this kind of god-like, uh, sort of vision of, like, well of course what they're doing is wrong. Natural deposits would be like seaweed or-, Actually two nations in South America went to war-. He would deny things. It's like playing dirty. Equal Housing lender licensed in all 50 states. Only then does God speak up and kind of say, like, "You're gonna question me?" It comes to us from our reporter, Aaron Scott. The authoritative record of New York Public Radios programming is the audio record. See now around this point I just don't have anything to do with this guy, I just want to take a shower, walk-. Just tiptoes out, just from time to time. My students are murderers.". About; Blog; Projects; Help; Donate An illustration of a heart shape . Imagine how it feels to have an award-winning team by your side through the mortgage process. And he was wearing a fur coat-. In that moment, my father, he stands up and he says. Well he started fuming that his wife had dissed him, and-. The fact that he kept on doing it over and over and over again was like, "Come on.". Speaking with Carol's mom, Carol's little daughter-, Killed her. That is true. He stirs up hatred between friends, between lovers, he even schemes against his own wife. And then, the final one. Meaning, any idea what was in his mind? You know what? In front of this really impressive looking machine. Oh, that right there, slap some quotations around that. That is if you don't continue, we're going to have to discontinue the experiment. No. Would change where the shocker and the shock-ee sat. He figures out a way to take a lot of air that's filled with these little nitrogen bonds clinging to each other and pump it to a big iron tank. You can find out more information about all those guys on our website, radiolab.org. Come over now.". Haber, it's unknown what happens for the rest of the evening, but it is a well documented fact that the very next morning-. David had always known this guy to be pretty mild mannered. But it wasn't until a few years later that he learned something that really put what happened that night into context. You know, you're not the first person that's ever done this. He figures out a way to take a lot of air that's filled with these little nitrogen bonds clinging to each other, and pump it with big iron tank. And Christensen, I dated her several times bef- three times- two times before. Now there's a footnote to this that is very strange. He signs up immediately, sends a letter volunteering for duty. We were just enacting an old, very famous experiment that you may have heard about. Those who could still breathe would turn blue. And every scenario produced a different result. If it doesn't show that people are just obeying orders-, All right, let's go on to our instructions. They start disagreeing with each other. He started calling me a whore and told me he didn't love me anymore. It immediately became apparent that there was going to be difficulties. Copyright 2019 New York Public Radio. The subjects range in occupation from corporation presidents to good [inaudible 00:12:29] and plumbers. Bonobos. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. In fact, his chemist had given this particular pesticide a smell. Can't keep holding it all in. And they go, "Why?" So, at a time when there are people all over our country eyeing other people all over the country and thinking, "She's bad. And he said, "Look, this is what you're going to do is Of course, you don't want to do this. And he believed it. 450 volts every shock now? As far as I know, I don't know if I did or not. "This was exactly what was on my mind. He is- he wants to feed- he wants to feed Germany. Whether it was feeding, or killing, or-, And he does. I mean, that's a pretty heady thing for, you know, a Jewish kid from Breslau to be hobnobbing with the Emperor and cabinet ministers. That I remember picking her up and-. It's absolutely essential. No. A lot of them are like, "This is not how you fight a war.". "This was a moment in German history," he says, "When Jews had a decent amount of freedom.". So during World War I, Haber's Institute had developed a formulation of insect killing gas called zyklon. We ask deep questions and use investigative journalism to get the answers. Any time the experimenter said, "You must continue" the shocker would say, "Hell no, I don't.". And to this day they have not talked about that day. And there is no doubt that today's plants and animals carry the genetic legacy of ancestors who fought fiercely to survive and reproduce. Terrestrials: A New Kids Show from Radiolab. It is a fair question to ask what are the conditions under which you or me or any of us could do-. Yeah. I'm going to give you a little, uh (laughing). Iago. No. Hmm. Meaning, I mean, what- what- any idea what was in his mind? Although once again we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. When we asked how close she came to killing him, she estimated 60 percent. Very distinctive looking man, bald on top, trim nice mustache, wore a little [pince-nez 00:28:20]. It's a little bit more direct. And give up the few details that they really needed to link him, certifiably, to all these crimes. To feed about 30 million people. And if they still were resisting or struggling, they'd get proud number three. It is a, the- the critical- the critical force prod. So, I'm going to talk to you over this intercom, okay? I'm gonna-. With all of the black-and-white moralizing in our world today, we decided to bring back an old show about the little bit of bad that's in all of us.and the little bit of really, really bad that's in some of us. no one has ever said about a sex tape that I've ever you know. And it's moving at about one meter per second. Maybe it's all about doubt in the end. That's my thing and that's where I'm going to stand on it. Uh, he's a master plotter. So my father and the other interviewer in that room that morning, Detective John [Matsen 00:58:19], they start using a line, a tact of interviewing that was very. It has enough what they used to call then solar energy. They reached back to the shelf and they find this Zyklon stuff. This is RadioLab. So, in the end where do you come down? That's what's horrifying about it, but imagine they were administering pain to themselves. He would say over and over again. Yes. Tell us anything about [inaudible 00:58:03]-. Our thanks to Ben Walker, whose podcast he has a podcast and it's a good one. Hi, I'm Robert Krulwich. Time's up. And 91% of the men said yes. But harbor saw it as a wonderful success, and wished that the Germans had been better prepared to exploit it, because he felt they really could have made a terrific advance if they had had more confidence. These little nitrogen atoms will fiercely hold together and it's almost impossible to pry them apart. We didn't really come into any kind of agreement with the Haber thing. They wanted someone who was really thrillingly bad, but in the end, was, uh, redeemed a bit. In a way we wait for it still. Because actually, he studied between 20 and 40 different variants of this same paradigm. Would you really think that this guy's a good guy? How could you? These little nitrogen atoms will fiercely hold together, and it's almost impossible to pry them apart. They will spare his son if he fesses up and- and tells them what they need to know. What you know-". They wanted someone who was really thrillingly bad but, in the end, was redeemed a bit.". Yeah. ", Yeah, so here's the interesting thing. Gary had denied this to his own lawyers. Jul 28, 2018 And isn't this a good thing that we have people in our society who are willing to make sacrifices for a greater- the greater good? I mean it's a pretty heady thing for a Jewish kid from Breslau to be hobnobbing with the Emperor, and cabinet ministers, he's part of the club; and he really, really relished it. Here's what he did. It's 0924 hours on June 17th, year 2003. And-. Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad. You can find out more information about all those guys on our website. Why did you do this?" He could do anything. They're trying to do the right thing. Then the executioner castrates you, cuts you open, and takes out your internal organs, and then, separates your head, which is put on a post. [inaudible 01:00:01] is I- I went back one time before [inaudible 01:00:05] that I, uh, like I said, I got to get it out. SciShow Tangents Like, how do you tell the real baddies from the rest of us? And at the very end of the play when everyone finds out what Iago's done, Othello asks him, "Why? In Seattle today a man called the Green River killer-. We will begin with this test. Podcasts; . And the, uh, really, really bad that is in, uh, some of us. Enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. He said that if I ever had a relationship with another man, he was going to send videos of us having sex to all the people in my university. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of someone halfway across the world. This episode was produced with help from Carter Hodge. Okay, one of those very tiny old fashioned pair of glasses that would pinch on your nose. Now the volunteer couldn't see the guy he was shocking, but he could definitely hear him. And while you're doing that, just give me your finger. What you know, you know.". That was not a real shock. He's standing there on the front pushing the gas into the lungs of other human beings. We don't exactly know why. And not just yeses. The subjects range in occupation from corporation presidents, to Good Humor men, and plumbers. Shoots herself in the chest. And the number of chemical reactions. Gary is dancing around this topic, Gary had denied this to his own lawyers. And the way I killed her, I cared for her because I dated her for [inaudible 01:01:43]. Take one. Thank you to James Shapiro whose most recent book is called Contested Will. The killer seems to have placed the bodies as if they were mannequins. If the experiment had to be successful, it had to be carried on.". She was a- I knew she had a daughter in the last [crosstalk 01:01:03]. It's a graphic or an illustrated novel. Direct your voice to the microphone in the room. And, you know, the class ended and I went back to my office. Obedience droops to about 40 percent [inaudible 00:15:40]. Go on please. And I designed a little questionnaire where I simply asked the students, "Have you ever thought about killing someone?" Thousands of people have done it before you. And every scenario produced a different result. Scattered One dead dad. And also a scientist. Warning. Right. This is Jeff Jensen, and he's a reporter in LA. The first victims of the Green River killer were found in the summer of 1982. At this point, David's moved onto a new university and he's teaching an introductory psychology class. I do not stand alone. All right. Up until that point, Gary refused to say, "That from the minute I picked these women up, I wanted to kill them." I don't think I ever had a fantasy that anatomically specific where I would see the part of the other person that I was going to stab or plan it like that. Check out the Casper or the Wave mattress with a support system that mirrors your body shape. The Bad Show Listen Transcript Image credits: Adam Cole Cruelty, violence, badness. There are hints of reasons. James Shapiro, Professor of English at Columbia University. You mean they're looking at 20 million people going hungry? Like shocking an innocent stranger over and over. Okay. New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. Have you ever thought about killing someone? The story of Job is that one day God and Satan are having a conversation, and they're saying, "Have you checked out Job? 1933 comes and Hitler takes over. Robert, I'm going to give you this piece of paper here. Takes away his wife, his children, all his material possessions. One of the reasons it grows, is because it's sucking up all the nitrogen in the soil. And even when they do say, "Yes." Go to audible.com/radiolab or text Radiolab to 500500 for a free 30-day trial and a free audiobook. It's part mix tape, part sonnet love letter, kind of like a daily musical journey into other human lives. This is, uh, I just want to take a shower. But even with all that gore and horribleness, there was often a moment that people waited for; and in a way we wait for it still, even now. And "Well, why the rage?" It's 9:24 hours on June 17th, year 2003. He's part of the club and he really, really relished it. As soon as it did, soldiers began to convulse. Accuracy and availability may vary. And one of the first acts that the Nazis do is to basically issue an order that says there shall be no Jews in the civil service. What's interesting is that how all of these struggles, all of them, play out the same way. You know, energy from the sun to grow crops. More energy than seemed, like, possible to make. The experiment requires that we continue. He brings her up as an example of a- of a woman that he actually had strong feelings for. connect it to this little electrode to your finger. Just push the button that corresponds to the right word. But what you're doing is for the good of Germany, and this is necessary in order to advance our noble cause.". No. I think you got to answer it, "With him." I-. You better check in on him, sir. He said that if I ever had a relationship with another man, he was going to send videos of us having sex to all the people in my university. And so I went up to the bedroom to find him and he was in a rage. And so, uh, when I went to the party, the party was already in full swing when I got there. They reach back to the shelf and they find this zyklon stuff.