WASHINGTON SQUARE: Im also curious, hearing about how you created the found poemsare there any poets whose work has inspired or instructed you specifically in this domain of found/collaged poetry, or poetry that incorporates historical source documents?SMITH: I have taught CD Wrights One Big Self, in both the poetry and photography formats, to my students in the past. Over her career, she has published a memoir and four books of poetry, including Life On Mars, which won the Pulitzer Prize several years ago. An elegy to your mother in The Bodys Question ends with the lines, We sat in that room until the wood was spent. To capacity. That seems to me not so much about privacy but about consumerism in some way. Do found texts youve worked with sometimes inform your subsequent writing? She's also the author of a memoir, Ordinary Light, which was a finalist for the National Book Award for Nonfiction. Her latest book is Cast Away, from Greenwillow Books. Among her current projects is Self-Portraits,a chapbook collection of ekphrastic poems focused on women artists. She earned a BA from Harvard University and an MFA in creative writing from Columbia University. The point of capitalism is to get more capital, which allows you to either procure stuff (things or experiences) or just hoard the lucre, deriving a weird pleasure from that. Film awards like the Oscars often have a best-animated film category, and this is dumb. It was so strange. Someone has likened it to the poem in my previous book called The Good Life which is about being so hungry, and having a job but not making enough money. I dont yet know how to classify Wade in the Water. For me, the memory of catching a poem in that fashion seeps into the sense of peace the poem contemplates, causing it to feel fleeting, like something it would be easy, if youre not working very deliberately, to lose.WASHINGTON SQUARE: Your poems have a habit of calling chronology into question. When she writes about love and desire, they are vehicles for the philosophical examination of humanity, of the ways we respond to authority, and more and more they are vehicles for thinking about the plight of the earth. Redress in the most humble terms: I think now, of course, I feel, and many of us feel differently about that. Because having them suggests a sense of unearned privilege? You know, popular myths that we cleave to as Americans, and there are a lot of poems in this book that have titles that are biblical. 4 (September 2018), Emily Jungmin Yoon, Maya Marshall, RHINO Reviews Vol. Tracy K. Smith served as U.S. poet laureate from 2017-19 and teaches at Princeton University. I also think that over the years teaching has made me a better editor of my own work. In a recent podcast of her conversation with Curtis Fox of the Poetry Foundation, Tracy K. Smith says that being Poet Laureate is a kind of service (Off the Shelf, July 31, 2018). Poetry allows us to bridge our differences, to remind ourselves that we do have things to say to each other, that we are interested in each others lives and vulnerabilities. In this new collection, Smith explores, mourns and even celebrates those vulnerabilities, both national and individual. If I read a poem about my father, sometimes if the poem is doing its work, you might begin to think about your relationship with your father, even if it might be different from what my poem says. We were almost certain theywere. Curtis Fox: So thats the opening poem in your book, and as you said, its set in the early years of the century when the poet was more {innocence}, but there are hints that all is not well, and you write Everyone I knew was living / The same desolate luxury, / Each ashamed of the same things: / Innocence and privacy. I often think of a wonderful Marie Howe poem called The Star Market which begins: The people Jesus loved were shopping at the Star Market yesterday. These are the old, the sick, the people a healthy young person might recoil from. How did you arrive at the title, and what do you hope it suggests or encapsulates for readers?While working on the book, I had the experience of attending a ring shout and feeling so deeply moved and shaken by the performance of Wade in the Water. After that evening, I suspected that Wade in the Water was going to be the title of my book. This is Tracy K. Smiths America, a lyric insurrection within Donald J. Trumps.Wade in the Water begins with the desolate luxury of the ironically titled Garden of Eden. It is set in the dawning century of the neoliberal universe, where everything is a market; the speaker is a thirtysomething New Yorker scraping out a life in the long tail of the Great Recession, a specter that looms over many poems in the collection. The author is efficient in pointing out that the men that once wrote and fought for equality, were the same to enforce and bring upon laws that oppressed We are not the isolated commodity seekers that capitalism and its armed enforcers demand we become, but rather all of us must be / / Buried deep within each other (Eternity). How did you fill in that blank as you were writing that? I think in these most recent poems, Im trying to figure something out about the possibility of something like universal oneness. WebMy maker says this poem reminds him of the little groceries and bodegas of his onetime New York neighborhood. The conversations that can ensue after weve sat together listening to poems that have activated some of our own private urgencies, are useful. Song allows us to hope for new connections: The interior sections of Smiths collection lift up others voices and names, to which she joins her own. The final poem, An Old Story, exposes our tendency to destroy our own world by reminding us of the Biblical storm that drowned all life except for Noah, his family, and the pairs of animals he saved on his ark: After the storm, it is song that changes the weather, tempts the animals to come down from the trees where they had shelteredin an ark made of wood but not by us. The glossy pastries! and was pleasantly surprised to stumble upon Tracy. Weve come to, I dont know The things that felt so new are no longer new and maybe we feel a sense of their dark possibility, or at least I do. She has taught at Princeton University and Harvard University. But it also became a poem about reckoning with what it means to be alive in the 21st century. I didnt set out to write a found poem, but when I got far enough into that research, I understood that I didnt want to merely metabolize all of these other real voices and then speak something imagined or invented out in my own voice; rather, I wanted to make space for these very compelling voices to speak to a reader the ways they had spoken to me. Too late. L.I. Some of these events have happened in large public spaces, so its been a matter of reading and then having maybe a public Q&A or more of a back and forth afterward. Educated at Harvard and Columbia, teaching at Princeton, named the US Poet Laureate in 2017, and already freighted with laurels (her previous book, Life on Mars, won the 2012 Pulitzer), Smith is no undiscovered talent. How does Political Poem complement and converse with the books more overtly, explicitly political poems? My thirties.Everyone I knew was livingThe same desolate luxury,Each ashamed of the same things:Innocence and privacy. Then animals long believed gone crept down. And I love how Wright allows the text of her various speakers to become a kind of chorus. She studied at Harvard University, where she joined the Dark Room Collective, a reading series for writers of color, created by Sharan Strange in 1988. Race is one of the chief subjects of Wade in the Water, a site wherein my wish to contemplate the elusive nature of compassion gets played out. We took new stock of one another. Tracy K. Smith: Yeah, I think in some ways this is kind of a coming of age poem. I found two books that really had a powerful impact upon me: Voices of Emancipation: Understanding Slavery, the Civil War, and Reconstruction through the U.S. Pension Bureau Files, edited by Elizabeth A. Regosin and Donald R. Shaffer; and Families and Freedom: A Documentary History of African-American Kinship in the Civil War Era, edited by Ira Berlin and Leslie S. Rowland. It wasnt until I found myself preoccupied with questions of love and faith that I figured out how I wanted to work with the source material of the article. The author of four books of poems, she received the 2012 Pulitzer Prize in poetry. Smith assembles a collage of bad news, omitting punctuation to create a sense of anxious acceleration: dust vented from factory chimneys settled well-beyond the property lineentered the water tableconcentration in drinking water 3x international safety limitstudy of workers linked exposure with prostate cancerworth $1 billion in annual profit. Thats one reason that the poem Eternity, which is set in China and dedicated in part to Yi Lei, felt important to include in the book, because much of my own new work comes directly out of that relationship. Its refreshing to hear from a Poet Laureate who holds all of these diverse concerns in her mind and in her voice, from our national tragedy to a four-year-olds refusal to eat her dinner. This view of history as contested territory is in turn based on a tentatively hopeful view of selfhood in which all is intersubjective. And then we find a way to have a conversation. Some do a lot, some very little. Her WebThe assignment consisted of reading this newly published poem and then writing an analysis. I often find that, after working on several new translations, I am driven to write. What are you really getting at there? Was there a poem or group of poems it coalesced around?SMITH: Thank you. Though its not like we have much of choice. Tracy K. Smith, "Dusk" from Wade in the Water. I suppose those two choices speak to some of the overarching themes I consciously wanted the book to cleave to.WASHINGTON SQUARE: This last comment makes me wonder about your process assembling a book. So I did that with this document, and what I found myself doing was deleting the text that was most specific in reference to England, and listening only to the first half, in many cases, of statements. But I also felt that, okay, this is a kind of service that I would be doing for the country. For a long time I didnt know what to do with my interest in the Nathaniel Rich article that informs Watershed. Then, after most of the manuscript was finished, I had the idea of marrying the facts from that article, in a found poem, with the narratives of near-death-experience (NDE) survivorspeople whose vocabularies almost across the board invoke the sense of Love as an original animating force, as the logic of the universe. It was no longer important or necessary, and I wanted to just listen to these fragments within this founding document, and feel the sort of startled andI dont know, just a sense of inevitability that those statements kind of gathered around themselves. Her poems pose fundamental questionsabout love, time, mortality, and faith (Is It us, or what contains us? she asks in Life on Mars)and pursue them with imagination, rigor, a bold comfort with uncertainty, and an unswerving commitment to candor and humaneness. Capitalist realism is the language of the boardroom, the pop-up ad, the tax form, the PR statement, the subway banner, the chip-card reader, the medical bill, the Fidelity account. Selected by Naomi Shihab Nye. How do you feel now about taking up race in your poetry? I honestly really enjoyed this poem, particularly the ending clause. But one day, when I was kind of working in the vein, I was sitting at my desk and I just had this vivid memory of shopping in a grocery store in Brooklyn, and this pang of nostalgia for that moment in my life, and this poem kind of just came out. Capitalism has made a nightmare world, and we can either resist its pressures or chill with our smartphones and wait for climate change to kill us.Along comes Tracy K. Smiths new book, Wade in the Water (Graywolf). Wade in the Water by Tracy K Smith is published by Penguin (8.99). He has I am always asking poems to show me who we are, what we are connected to, what our actions and choices set into motion, and whether it might somehow be possible to become better at being human. What do you try to impart as a teacher, and what, if anything, has teaching poetry taught you about writing it? SMITH: I think the aim of most poems is to erase some measure of the distance between one person and another, usually between the poems speaker and its reader, or between the poems speaker and its subject. After all, it supposedly makes nothing happen, according to Auden (indeed, imagine a poem changing President Trumps mind on immigration), and it is the literary form for which capitalism has the least use, judging by its small contemporary readership.But poetry that tries to represent individual subjectivity is well positioned to depict life under capitalism and to render possible post- or anti-capitalist alternatives. As for imaginative play, maybe that comes from another place. WASHINGTON SQUARE: Im intrigued by the extent to which youve referred to this poem as an autonomous entity: it seems to be voiced, what I read as fear or hesitation. Are there some poems that seem more or less transparent to you, more or less within your understanding and control, than others?SMITH: Oh, sure. But in other events, Ive gone into almost curated spaces, like rehab facilities or churches, or we have an upcoming trip that will take us to a retirement community. RHINO Poetry is supported in part by the Illinois Arts Council, a state agency, Poets &Writers, Inc, The Poetry Foundation, and by The MacArthur Funds for Arts and Culture at The Richard H. Driehaus Foundation. Id squint into it and let it slam me in the face-- the known sun setting on the dawning century really stuck with me. So, when I was working on other poems in this book that were wrestling with history, I thought, oh, Ill go back to that Jefferson poem and see if I can make it right. Copyright 2018 by Tracy K. Smith. SMITH: I think my strength is the image. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration Not just me, not just people who are fresh out of whatever you do in the first years after graduate school into adulthood, thinking that Ill be happy if I can almost afford the things that I want, if I can somehow find a way to buy what life seems to offer to other people. Can you tell us a little bit about this poem before you read it? Tracy K. Smith: Yeah, the sense of dark possibility rose to the surface. Every small want, every niggling urge. The same desolate luxury, In a quiet way, I am editing from the moment I begin writing, pushing myself to think more rigorously and vigorously and to live up to the model of discipline and courage that I encourage my students to embrace.WASHINGTON SQUARE: Youve written four poetry collections; when you started writing, you were a student, and now youre a teachernot to mention the nations Poet Laureate. Reprinted by permission of Graywolf Press, www.graywolfpress.org. MyHeart hammers at the ceiling, telling my tongueTo turn it down. I carried the wish to write a poem about that story with me for a year-and-a-half. SMITH: For I Will Tell You the Truth About This I went in search of information about African American soldiers experience in the Civil War. Unlike a lot of other poets I was looking at, she has a certain flavor that just really fit to my taste. Thats the emphasis in each of my workshops, though sometimes we use themes to determine the readings, or we look at a specific type of poemsay long poems or poem cyclesover the course of the term. Would you read it for us? Like the letters themselves, Smiths poem is restorative. This would be a democratic project: a writer who takes it on would have to imagine a community where individuals arent just monads bouncing around the economy but are instead subjects whose lives matter regardless of how much or little capital is attached to them. Price and value, Smith reminds us, are not the same thing.In a recent lecture published by the Washington Post, she calls poetry a radically re-humanizing force, one that comes closest to bringing us into visceral proximity with the lives and plights of others. She contrasts it with the market-driven language that divides everything into a brutal war of all against all and debilitates our minds: I also, more and more, recognize its value as a remedy to the various things that have bombarded our lines of sight and our thought space, and that tamper with our ability or even our desire to listen to that deeply rooted part of ourselves. WebTracy K. Smith was born in Falmouth, Massachusetts, on April 16, 1972, and raised in Fairfield, California. Theyre intimate spaces where we can really stop and say, okay, heres a poem by this American poet whos voice I think is so important, what do you hear within it? Those banked poems help me get started, but inevitably the work generated during that intense period is characterized by recurring themes, images, vocabulary, and obsessions. From trees. She didn'tKnow me, but I believed her,And a terrible new acheRolled over in my chest,Like in a room where the drapesHave been swept back. I sensed my work as one of curating rather than composing. For Smith, this is a lavish shop that seems to be selling a very specific selection of goods. This was the shattered promise of Reconstruction, which collapsed under the weight of reactionary white politics (and outright terrorism) by the late 1870s. On making the appointment, Dr. Hayden said: It gives me great pleasure to appoint Tracy K. Smith, a poet of searching. At the time, I wasnt writing many poems; I was working on my prose memoir, and feeling, somewhat guiltily, that it might be a good idea to take the opportunity to produce a new poem. So I thought, what could I do? I love the things my students are willing to learn, and the risks they are willing to take with their poems. Poems, like movies, are good at indulging this wish. Her writing contests the deeply isolating structures of capitalism by imagining self and nation as a collaborative condition, one that must be endlessly reconstructed and defended in the face of xenophobia, sexual violence, economic ruin, social anomie, and political disintegration. Tracy K. Smith: Well, I thought that this conversation about how incapable we as a nation are of having a conversation across political difference or racial difference, that motivated me to think about how poetry might be a kind of bridge. Curtis Fox: Now, if the Trump presidency has told us anything, its that racism is alive and well in America. Every hate swollen to a kind of epic wind. / Pomegranate, persimmon, quince!), even though the ultimate act is to be a good consumer and buy things. She lives with her husband in Chicago. My natural process is to try and distribute the weight of the poem across these mechanisms, but I get very excited when the poem has other plans for itself and leans more toward a rhythmic energy, or toward the rigid structure of rhyme or repetition. As a subscriber, you have 10 gift articles to give each month. And then theres that line in Eternity: as though all of us must be / Buried deep within each other. How does poetry foreground or grapple with distinctions between the self and others? I spent about 2 hours going through this list of poets trying to find someone that I could just understand and was pleasantly surprised to stumble upon Tracy. WASHINGTON SQUARE: Across all four of your collections, many poems speak through personae. Maybe I am asking my new poems to remind me that I am one of those people, that America is one of those people. The way you can break into laughter remembering something while at a funeral, say, and I had the same problem choosing my poet. Its a dire poem, tinged with hope, that out of the destruction of our century something new and fresh might reemerge. I think its because i'm not very artistic that it doesn't come so easy. In 2014 she was awarded the Academy of American Poets fellowship. At the end of the day, our lives arent quite the way we wish they were and it can be difficult to come to terms with that. In June 2017, Smith was named U.S. poet laureate. The first line introduces the readers to both the casual I wanted to draw-in the sense of the living spirit at the heart of that nights encounter, and at the heart of the tradition of the ring shout itself: the sense of love and deliverance, of faith and compassion, of justice and survival.Watershed was a poem I knew I wanted to write. WASHINGTON SQUARE: Thats fascinating! Tracy K. Smith served as U.S. poet laureate from 2017-19 and teaches at Princeton University. And, for all their sagacity and poisetheir precise images and finely-crafted musicSmiths poems manage to be, too, surprising and audacious. Whatwhat on earthconstitutes a meaningful life in a market society?Markets shape mindsets. Tracy K. Smith: I have, and I didnt know if I would. Curtis Fox: That was An Old Story. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration. We get collage, erasure, short lyrics, long sectioned pieces; speakers grapple with the Civil War, immigration, faith, environmental damage, motherhood, grocery shopping. Men with interests to protect seduce and extract pleasure from a young person, making her believe / / It was she who gave permission, just as patriarchal industrial capitalism has plundered the youth of mother Earth.Those awful, awful men. I was dreaming that I was reading aloud a mural that had been made of a Carl Phillips poem, when suddenly my waking mind broke in to say: Thats not a Carl Phillips poembut if you write it down it can be yours! I woke up and struggled to remember and reconstruct the lines Id read in the dream. How did the book come together and find its shape? This is a poem thats kind of looking back toward the moment when we might have known but didnt care. The opening and closing poems refer to the most familiar Biblical stories. Pomegranate, persimmon, quince! Smith works like a novelist, curating the national tongue. But the poet respectfully appropriates them, placing each within her linguistic universe, where things like line breaks and image patterns matter, and as such the erasure is partly undone. 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